Interview with Edward Burch

Edward Burch is everywhere in Chicago. If you’ve been out to a show that’s remotely related to the “alternative country” movement, you have seen him. Maybe singing backup with the Handsome Family. Maybe doing a solo acoustic thing in the front room at the Hideout on Monday nights. You’ve seen him.

His most high-profile gig has been his partnership with former Wilco multi-tasking wizard, Jay Bennett. The 2002 Bennett-Burch album, The Palace at 4am (Part I), got lots of press for a lot of reasons: some of them music-related, some of them due to the fact that Palace was released on the same day as Wilco’s Yankee Hotel Foxtrot.

Since then, Bennett and Burch released a limited pressing of an odd collection of demo versions, alternate takes, and acoustic versions of all the songs from Palace (in order!), plus two John Cale covers. In addition to his work with Jay Bennett, Burch is involved with the Kennett Brothers, the Viper & His Famous Orchestra, and a duo with Wilco’s LeRoy Bach. Despite his busy schedule, Edward took the time to participate in an email interview with Glorious Noise…

GLONO:

I’ve seen you play with Jay Bennett, with

Leroy Bach, with the Handsome Family, and solo.

I’ve even heard a bootleg of

you singing with Wilco. Do you know everybody?

Edward Burch:

I’ve played music for so long I don’t know that I know

how to do anything else. Actually that’s an

exaggeration if not a downright lie. There are lots

of other things I like to do. As for being

everywhere, I think I was in love (and perhaps still

am) with the rock and roll world. Being around the

Uncle Tupelo and then the Wilco scene was a function

of my then neighbor, once roommate and now musical

partner, Jay Bennett. He was playing in bands that I

liked and I would go see them. Here, this is a funny

story. I ran into Ken Coomer the other night in

Chicago and he said, “Edward I love you but I have to

be honest with ya. Back in the old days, you were the

most obnoxious person backstage.” Bob Andrews [late

Tupelo/early Wilco road manager, current Bennett-Burch

Manager and Undertow label-head] then chimed in,

“Yeah, it was like, ‘Who IS this guy? Who is he

with?’” I soon learned the ropes and dropped the

sycophantic fan nonsense and started behaving like a

normal, adjusted human being (or as close to that as I

am capable of).

The Handsome Family are some of the sweetest folks

I’ve ever met. I love when I get to sit in with them

because I’m literally in the middle of their shit. I

act as the buffer for their on-stage “bickering.” But

really, it’s all about the love. They write such

fantastic songs so it is always an honor to join them.

If only I could write something that moving and sad.

My goal is to someday write a song which completely

moves me the way their songs, or the songs of others

that I admire, do. Basically I want to write a song

that will make me cry every time I hear it. It could

be tears of joy, grief, sadness, recognition,

anything. I don’t think that I have yet written a

song which moves me significantly on an emotional

level the way other peoples’ songs do. I don’t even

know if it’s possible, but I’m gonna keep trying.

GLONO:

Like who? What other artists move you like that?

Burch:

It could be anything. Late period Phil Ochs comes to

mind. The new Autumn Defense record that John

Stirratt and Pat Sansone just finished is very moving,

to me anyway. Chris Bell’s “album” I Am the Cosmos.

Brown album Jesus Christ Superstar, the best thing

Andrew Lloyd Webber ever did, so much so that it is an

aberration.

GLONO:

Is there anyone you’d

like to work with who you haven’t yet?

Burch:

Folks I would like to work with include this amazing

pop songwriter from Philadelphia named Jim Boggia.

We’re looking to get him involved somehow on the next

record. I’ve always wanted to join my friend John

Peacock’s band (The John Peacock Pop Quintet). He’s

one of the Kennett Brothers. Great song writer,

especially a great melodicist.

Playing with LeRoy is a blast, and of course with Jay.

It might be a while before we see those two on the

same stage together again, but it would be nice.

Maybe for my birthday, I can get them both to join me

on a song at the Hideout. We’ll see…

GLONO:

Well, since you brought it up… How weird are

things between those guys? Or

is the tension a product of media manipulation and

journalistic assumption?

And how comfortable are you with your role of “Sweden”

staying neutral in the whole

situation?

Burch:

Well, I don’t know. LeRoy’s “our friendship had run

its course” comment in the film [I Am Trying to Break Your Heart, a documentary on Wilco] was taken drastically

out of context. And he and Jay talked on the phone a

couple months back and the conversation seemed to go

well. As far as what the relationship is like between

those two, you’d really have to ask them. I can only

speculate. I do OK with having to separate things and

compartmentalize. It hasn’t affected my individual

interactions with either of them, really.

GLONO:

When can

we expect Palace Part

II? Are you happy with how Palace Part I and Palace

1919 turned out?

Burch:

I hope that we can finish Palace II sometime this

summer. I am very happy with Palace I, which is to

say that I can still listen to it. I am very proud of

the work we did on that record. Palace 1919 (which a

friend in Japan pointed out is pronounced “Paris 1919″

over there…conflation of Rs and Ls, y’know) isn’t an

album, so it’s the type of thing which you would

assess differently. 1919 is like looking at someone’s

sketchbook, it’s about ideas and processes. People

have told me that they like it. To be honest it is

not something I can sit down and listen to. In fact,

I’ve never been able to sit and listen to it start to

finish, and not just because the fuckin’ thing clocks

in longer than our first record. There are moments

that I like on it and there are moments that make me

cringe. Why we didn’t just put out a 7-inch of the

John Cale covers and call it a day is beyond me. I

mean, it’s pretty arrogant to put out an album’s worth

of demos and alternate takes right after your first

album, in the same order. Maybe we’ll gather up some

of our used cigarette butts and auction them on eBay.

GLONO:

Ha ha. So that was a Jay decision, I take it? Do

you think he was feeling the

criticism that Palace Part I was overproduced, as

some critics said?

Burch:

No, it actually was a mutual decision. With the

benefit of hindsight, I just don’t know if it was

worth the trouble. Releasing those versions was

certainly not a response to criticisms of

overproduction, because if it was, we would have taken

greater care to make that collection (note, I don’t

refer to it as “album”) sound as amazing, if not

moreso, than Palace I. The versions on Palace 1919

are, like I said, sketches, and you look at them once

or twice and say “Oh, that’s kinda interesting” and

then you put it away.

GLONO:

I know that Palace Part I is built up from a

hodgepodge of various demos

and miscellaneous recording sessions over a period

of several years. Will

your next album be assembled the same way, or are

you planning on recording

all new stuff?

Burch:

On the one hand, some of these songs might be old

material to us, but it’s brand new to almost everyone

else. We will be combing over what we have. There

may be old recordings that we keep. We might start

the whole recording process from scratch. Basically

our motto is “serve the song.” Whatever the song

needs. New key? Different tempo? Re-write? Throw

it in the trash? Fine just as it is?

GLONO:

Yeah, but don’t you think the the listener can sense

that something wasn’t

recorded as an album? Not that it necessarily HAS

to be, but there’s a big

difference between an ALBUM and a COLLECTION of

songs. I know you know what

I’m talking about—you’re a record nerd too,

right?

Burch:

Maybe. Some reviews I read of Palace I found an

internal logic or thematic consistency with that

album, and that certainly wasn’t intended. We

sequenced the album before we finished recording it

(because we had an artwork deadline, and we’d already

blown a couple of the music deadlines). As long as

I’m happy with how the songs turn out, I’m not too

worried about the finished product.

GLONO:

Any chance of recording with a band?

Burch:

We definitely want to get Will and Scott and the

Centro-matic kids involved because we love working with

them, so there will likely be some live-in-the-studio

band takes used. And like I said earlier, I want to

get Jim Boggia on board, because he’s great. I heard

his record after our first time through Philly, and

called him up and said “Are you tryin’ to blow my

mind?” Seriously, he is an amazing talent and I would

be honored to do anything with him.

GLONO:

That’s cool. So that will give Jay a chance to play

some lead guitar?

Burch:

He did play some lead guitar on Palace I, y’know. In

fact, ALL of the lead guitar (because that’s not my

bag).

GLONO:

I’m not an Yngwie fan, but I enjoy the occasional solo,

especially Jay’s solos. Are you

guys going to ROCK? Not all the time, but once in a

while? Please…

Burch:

If we’re going to “rock” then we better write some new

songs, because the bulk of the material we’re thinking

of for Palace II at the moment is mid-tempo at best,

if not downright slow. That doesn’t mean that

something can’t be heavy and rockin’ (especially if we

have some Centro-matic in the house).

GLONO:

I get the feeling that Jay is a big fan of

incorporating the sounds of all

of his “new toys” into his recordings, and I hear

that he’ll tinker with

recordings forever, at least right up until he has

to turn over the masters to

the label. Are there times when you’ve felt like

saying, “Dude, that’s

enough. This song does not need a glockenspeil!” Or

do you enjoy that kind of

thing too? It must be a blast to have access to a

real Mellotron, and all

that crazy stuff he collects.

Burch:

I could be wrong about this, but I think Jay has a

hard time letting go of things—creatively that is.

And I completely understand the feeling of “it’s never

done” and worrying that there was some other thing you

should have tweaked, some other sound or texture which

should have been added or subtracted, some other lyric

that should have been changed. But the whole

experimenting with what sorts of fun sounds we can

create in the studio, I share some of that obsession.

I, however, am often the one trying to be the voice of

reason suggesting that “maybe 20 vocal takes is enough

and you can comp something wonderful from what’s

there.” Jay’s perfectionist drive can certainly be

irksome, especially when deadlines are approaching and

missed and rescheduled and missed and so on. He does

know how to make great sounding records, though.

GLONO:

Would you be willing to do a track-by-track

breakdown of Palace Part I, and

say when the base of each song was initially

recorded, who played what on it,

and what overdubs were done? I realize this would

be a huge undertaking, but

I know I was disappointed in the liner notes to the

album, and I assume others

were too. Other than the fact that it would

probably required a 50-page cd

insert, are there any other reasons this info wasn’t

included?

Burch:

That is an extremely daunting request. One of the

reasons that specific info wasn’t laid out is that on

very early sessions, we had trouble remembering

exactly who played what. The track sheets are

somewhere in the studio which give some indication.

Often no dates.

“Dime” (1919) “Darlin’” and “Forgiven” were all first

session late 94 early 95. “Dime” on Palace I was newly

recorded in the final days of the Palace I sessions.

The Woody songs were from Mermaid I era. “Whispers”

and “Photograph” are basically Courtesy Move [Jay Bennett, John Stirratt and Ken Coomer] songs

with me overdubbed into the mix. “California” is from

the CM period (1997-98), but this is our version (CM

version was officially released on a 7-inch). “Talk To

Me” was demoed much slower as a CM song—then I went

at it in the final months of finishing Palace I.

“Sugar” and “Venus” date from the first YHF sessions

in 1999. “Puzzle” happens around CM working with

Sherry Rich, as does “It Hurts” I think. Many

overdubs on Palace I happen in the final weeks,

including most of the drums (“Hey man, turn that click

track down, it’s throwing my time off”), strings,

horns, backing vocals, orchestra bells.

GLONO:

I’ve heard of the Kennett Brothers, but I haven’t

heard you. Who’s in the

band? How far along is your album? Are you

recording it at Jay’s studio?

Burch:

Edward Burch – Vocal, Guitar

John Peacock – Vocal, Keyboards, Guitar, Bass

Andy Leach – Vocal, Guitar, Pedal Steel

Kip Rainey – Mandolin, Bass

Ryan Rapsys – Drums

The album is moving along. We hope to have one of our

albums done and out by summer’s end. Undertow will be

putting it out. John and I just wrote a new song (and

our first collaboration) so I am very excited about

finally finishing this project. The first album will

be our more pop leaning material and we want to issue

a collection of our much older (and different line-up)

country related stuff.

GLONO:

I love the whole Monday night at the Hideout thing.

I’ve only been to it a

couple of times, but it really feels like how

experiencing music is meant to

be. You know what I mean? Just a bunch of people

hanging out, drinking beers,

playing guitars, listening to music, having fun.

Plus the Hideout has the vibe

of your weird uncle’s basement from the 70s. They

ought to put orange shag

carpet in there. Don’t you think?

Burch:

I would be all in favor of orange shag carpeting at

the Hideout, given that orange is possibly my favorite

color. I just wrote a song called “I like Orange

Things” based on a song from the Song-Poem Anthology

called “I Like Yellow Things.” I’ve been very

obsessed lately with the whole Song-Poem industry.

I’ve been covering song-poems and, with my day job as

Music Editor at The Paper in Champaign, I am writing

an article on Song-Poems right now.

But the Hideout, yeah I love that place. Hands down

my favorite place to be in Chicago. All the folks who

work there and the owners and the patrons, they’re

fantastic people.

GLONO:

Wow. The only song-poem I’ve heard is the one about

Stevie Wonder’s penis.

Burch:

I just learned, in fact, that the Stevie Wonder line

was excised and changed to “A Blind Man’s Penis”

’cause they didn’t want to get into any trouble.

GLONO:

Is

the “Jimmy Carter Says Yes” song that you and LeRoy

do a song-poem?

Burch:

Yes it is, although LeRoy and I have yet to do that

song together. I’ve mainly done it with Steve and

Diane.

GLONO:

Is that

whole anthology good? I hate the “it’s so bad it’s

good” thing with music. If

it’s good, it’s good. Ironic hipsterism is

bullshit.

Burch:

I think the anthology is great. It might take a

little while for it to reveal its inner message(s) to

you, but there are some great songs on there.

especially the Rodd Keith stuff. This guy was

amazingly talented, and songs like “Little Rug Bug”

and “How Can a Man Overcome His Heartbroken Pain?” are

really fantastic. There are times with these things

that the lyrics might be of questionable merit, but

these were professional musicians cranking out songs

at the rate of, like, 12 an hour. And they managed at

times to create something brilliant. The bulk of the

time they were nothing to write home about, but the

ones that have been anthologized thus far have

something to them.

For me, these songs are not a case of, what did you

call it, “ironic hipsterism.” The folks who sent

these lyrics in are, for the most part, very genuine.

They’re not trying to put you on. It’s a refreshing

change from the posturing and image manipulation that

goes on so often these days in all aspects of the

music industry, indie rock especially.

I heard from the folks at Sub-Pop that they are

planning to release one for the holidays of Christmas

Song-Poems. I know what I’m hoping for in my

stocking.

GLONO:

Do you think most people

think you’re just goofing on this stuff when you

cover it?

Burch:

I’m sure there are many times that people must think,

“What the fuck is he doing up there?” when I pull out

these weird songs, or hell, probably when I’m singing

my own songs for that matter. But whether with

critical or popular assessment, you can’t base what

you do on what people are thinking or how they might

take it. One characteristic that I think I even share

with Jay is that I don’t have “guilty pleasure” songs,

per se. I like a song or I don’t, and if I like it

I’m likely to play it.

GLONO:

Your live

show with just the two of you is so stripped down

and different from the disc.

Much more playful. You guys are like the Smothers

Brothers up there. Do you

ever think, “Nobody’s going to take us seriously if

we can’t make it through

this song without breaking into another funny

story?”

Burch:

I love the Smothers Brothers (I guess that’s no

surprise) and I love goofing around with Jay and with

an audience. The only way in which I want people to

take me seriously is for them to “seriously” have a

good time when they come out to see me, whether it’s

with Jay or LeRoy or anybody I play with. I’m sure

that sounds ridiculous (“Have a good time, ALL the

time!”). I mean, it’s only rock’n'roll, it’s only pop

music or whatever. It’s hard to take it seriously,

except I guess in terms of what music makes you feel.

And that varies widely from person to person and song

to song and you don’t have any control over that.

GLONO:

How do you feel about the way the

Internet has changed the way

musicians and fans interact with each other? I see

you post to the Undertow

message boards—do you enjoy that “direct”

communication with fans? Ever

feel like people cross the line and get too weird

and personal?

Burch:

I guess the weird thing is that the Internet has

developed a very conversational style of writing, but

it is still the written word which commands some level

of authority, simply by virtue of it being written.

So there can be times when such conversations CAN seem

weird or personal or crossing the line even if they

weren’t meant to be. And there are some folks who are

very cool in their online interactions. And then of

course there are some folks out there who are complete

fucking freaks (not in the good sense of the term),

and you should avoid them at all costs. I post and

respond to folks on our website because, well, I can

think of no reason not to. They’re curious about what

we’re doing and when I get a moment I’ll chat. It’s

simple common courtesy…a courtesy move, if you will.

My mama taught me manners.

GLONO:

You guys have released unreleased material as mp3s

on your site. How do you

feel about that?

Burch:

I guess it isn’t “unreleased” anymore, now is it?

GLONO:

How do you feel about the whole mp3 debate?

Personally, I download a

lot of stuff, but I buy more CDs than ever.

Burch:

I have no problem with it. I would post some others

as well. Although I’ve had a few people tell me, “Hey

man, I really liked your album. I downloaded it from

your site.” or “I had a friend burn it for me” and I

can’t help but think “Then why didn’t you buy one?”

We are a fairly tiny operation and there are plenty of

other small operations that need support. If you’re

gonna steal, do it from OmniMegaCorp. ‘Cause you know

with that recent FCC further deregulation last week

(the legal equivilant of pulling the few remaining

teeth from a defenseless, aging, invalid), you can be

certain that media consolidation will become even

further concentrated. FCC chair Michael Powell

(Colin’s son, y’know?) and the corporate media get in

bed but it’s the public and democracy and the free

flow of information that is getting screwed. So my

advice is, take all of the free music you want from

those fuckers, at least until they significantly

change their uber-greedy ways. And support the little

guys as much as you can. I believe in redistributing

the resources.

GLONO:

That’s funny, because that is totally my philosophy

on making copies of music

for friends. I make mixes with lots of everything

on it, but I won’t copy

whole cds of indie label stuff because I realize

that these people need my

support. I’ve got no ethical problem with copying

major-label releases for friends.

Except with big deal, “important” releases

where I consider buying it

to be like voting. Like I bought the Wilco album

the day it came out and even

though it’s on a major, I bought one for my

brother-in-law too rather than just

copy it for him, because I wanted those numbers to

show up in SoundScan. To

me, it feels like it makes as much of a difference as casting my

vote for President.

Downloading or copying major-label releases for

friends is sort of like voting

for the Libertarian or Green candidate.

Burch:

It’s kinda sad isn’t it when we have more voting power

as “consumers” than we do as “citizens.” That’s

obviously why the FCC decision went the way it did, to

serve the needs of business and corporations over and

even to the exclusion of the general public.

Electoral politics has become the same way, bought and

sold to the highest bidder. Not that it’s anything

new, it’s just become more blatant and shameful in the

past 15-20 years.

GLONO:

Do you think the major labels will ever change their

ways?

Burch:

Corporations, whether we are talking about the Big 5

that control the media, or any of the rest of them

will never change their ways until they are forced to

do so. One good starting point might be to revoke the

corporate charters of companies that do not behave in

the public interest.

GLONO:

Will they ever be

willing to invest in an unpopular artist and try to

show the world that he’s

actually really good? Or are those days over?

Burch:

Record companies and Clear Channel and the like have

the power to make things popular. I think they are

afraid of diversity, they are afraid of things they

haven’t done before which don’t follow the script of a

tried and true formula. Notice how many sequel movies

you see hitting the multiplexes these days? Those

days you speak of are over unless we do something

about it. If the interests of corporate radio

stations and major labels is to deliver us to

advertisers and clutter the airwaves with crap, then

we respond by not comsuming their products, and

pressuring these companies and our “legislators” to

act in the public interest.

GLONO:

I

mean, with all the

consolidation, what incentive do these corporation

have to make art when they

can sell hundreds of thousands of copies of shit? I

am not optimistic to ever

hear good music on commercial radio for the rest of

my life. The Man tells us

what’s cool, then manufactures it and sells it to

us. What could possibly make

them stop their uber-greedy ways?

Burch:

I’m in favor of what is referred to as a “maximum

wage” where companies and CEOs could only make so much

money, and anything in excess is taxed. That tax

revenue would then be put to use to fund, say in this

case, authentic community programming, real

“non-commercial” programming (as oposed to PBS/NPR who

call their commercials “underwriting”) that would play

more diverse music, give wider spectrum of news and

opinion. If an oil company made too much money, the

taxes would go for environmental cleanup, research

into renewable, cleaner energy sources, etc. Of

course, this means changing the tax laws so that

corporations actually pay their taxes, but that’s

another story. Well, actually it’s not, it’s all part

of the same story. You should get Mark Eitzel and I

in the same room talking politics. We’d be starting

the revolution tomorrow.

You can download a bunch of Bennett/Burch songs from their site, and you can buy Palace I from Amazon. You can see Edward Burch at the Hideout in Chicago on most Monday nights.